Consciously Creating Highly Motivated Hybrid Teams – Interview With Jenny Ainsworth

The video also has captions.

[00:00:05.570] - Clare Josa
So welcome to today's interview with Jenny Ainsworth as part of a locked down leadership conference #makinghybridwork season. Now, I love talking with Jenny. She is a leadership and motivation consultant and she really knows how to get to the nub of what we're avoiding. So it sets us free to actually be able to inspire people more effectively. And Jenny's approach is no nonsense, but full of compassion. What we're going to be talking about today with her down to earth style is how to motivate our hybrid teams, how to create a team charter for hybrid working so that everybody feels involved and included and it doesn't create a two tier society.

[00:00:46.340] - Clare Josa
We're going to look at really understanding every member needs, and we're going to look at building flex and fluidity into your leadership style, including her three essential words that every leader needs to know, whether it's Hybrid working or any other form of decision. So, Jenny, a huge welcome to you. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:01:08.360] - Jenny Ainsworth
Oh, delighted to be here. It's been a fantastic conference. So neat. It is so timely. So I'm really pleased to be part of it. Thanks, Claire.

[00:01:15.710] - Clare Josa
You're very welcome. So, Jenny, before we start a question, I've never actually asked you, how did you get to do what you do now?

[00:01:22.310] - Jenny Ainsworth
Oh, good grief. I think my last corporate position was at Disney. Actually, I was the European training manager for Disney. So we used to get a lot of bring in a lot of consultants and different people. And I got to the stage where and this sounds incredibly showy off and being British, we don't like the show, but the people that we were paying to come into the business, I just felt a lot of the time that what they were doing was very tame, very sort of phoning it in.

[00:01:52.430] - Jenny Ainsworth
It wasn't bespoke enough. It was a case of this is what I've got and I'll sort of make it fit. And I just got to the stage right. Though I don't think people are asking the right questions of the businesses to really find out what's needed. And it also coincided with me hitting the big 30. So that milestone time. And I just thought, you know, I'm going to go out and give it a bash, have been a consultant in my own right and try to be the consultant I'm longing for within businesses.

[00:02:19.220] - Jenny Ainsworth
And I gave myself a year. That was 20 years ago.

[00:02:22.010] - Clare Josa
So and I love that. And it's funny. What you say is 30 was actually the year I jumped out of my corporate role as well to set up my business, too. And as you say, you don't look back now. Absolutely. So, Jenny, talk to me about motivation, OK? Because a lot of people that I'm talking with at the moment are in survival. They can't even imagine a thriving. And when you talk to leaders, they're so busy trying to work out the how of how we can make hybrid working at the thought of being quite to also motivate their teams.

[00:02:53.480] - Clare Josa
Interesting, the sort of Disney link. They start thinking that they've got to behave like some kind of cartoon character. Yeah. Can you help us understand what you mean by motivating teams and how somebody can do that without having to be super high energy?

[00:03:08.690] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yeah, absolutely right. Because I'm so glad you picked up on that very often when we think about motivation and and, you know, we've got to be high energy, as you say, to use a Disney link. People automatically think Tyga. And then we've got to be the sort of fabulous manager that's sort of doing all of this. Well, that's a kindergarten teacher. And the thing is motivation. All of us are on a spectrum. Some of those, you know, if we think of it on a scale of one to 10, some of us need to be on an eight to feel that we can do even just to get out of bed in the morning.

[00:03:44.360] - Jenny Ainsworth
Some of us actually can be a little bit low down, might be on a three, and that is perfectly acceptable for them to get up and to be their best. But the fact of the matter is, we are all unique individuals. So leaders have got to find where are you now? How is that in terms of your usual base, small? Can you benchmark? Are you feeling demotivated? Are you sort of there or thereabouts and rather than OK, we've got to get you to ten, you know that we've got to get you completely motivated.

[00:04:12.020] - Jenny Ainsworth
It's very much what would better look like, because if you are feeling on a three out of ten and you really want to be a much, much higher up, that seems too far out of reach. And that's when actually we can push people away, rather then what would a fall look like and feel like? Let's let's get you to that, because then we feel we're capable of achieving a bit more. Then we can look at what five looks like.

[00:04:34.880] - Jenny Ainsworth
So it really is a spectrum, I think. And and it's helping leaders help that people know where they are on that spectrum. And that's not that sliding scale and what needs to happen to nudge them a little bit.

[00:04:46.190] - Clare Josa
So I absolutely love this because there are some people who look down, for example, who've been juggling carer responsibilities. Some people have been trying to educate their children at the same time. And that level of motivation is going to look very different to somebody who has been thriving, potentially other secret warning signs that we as leaders can look for. That motivation has dropped with a team member, and it might be time for us to have a chat with them without making them feel guilty and bad.

[00:05:12.580] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yeah, I think the one thing that I really encourage ladies to be is to be detectives. You're always piecing together a crime scene. And by that, you know, it's notice how people usually respond in emails and when they're on camera and how much they contribute in team meetings. Notice when it doesn't seem to be their notice, when people are ever so slightly snippy or a bit more abrupt, because that's when, again, it's the telltale signs that somebody is just feeling ever so slightly snippy is the word, I think.

[00:05:47.560] - Jenny Ainsworth
But that slip, if we don't manage that stuff, then becomes hugely overwhelmed. And we all know when we get overwhelmed, sometimes it feels impossible to get out of that feeling. So it's be observe and notice. Notice ladies have got to notice. And as is employees and team members, we want to be noticed. That's not micromanage. But I want to feel that you have noticed what's going on with me. You know what I've noticed when I'm contributing at my best and be grateful for that.

[00:06:19.210] - Jenny Ainsworth
But notice when I'm dialling it down a little bit because then I feel valued.

[00:06:23.890] - Clare Josa
This is really, really important because sometimes as a leader or a line manager or even as a colleague, we might notice and we don't want to say anything. We don't want to cause offence or we don't want to get it wrong. That awful moment where you congratulate somebody on a pregnancy and you just find out is actually we can tolerance. Yes. We don't want to be doing that over somebody's sort of emotional, mental, energetic state. And for those of you who've been watching the whole conference, actually the interview that I did just on Wednesday with Marie Coombes, the mediator trainer, if you don't know how to handle that difficult conversation with someone about their motivation, she had some great tips in there.

[00:06:58.750] - Clare Josa
Go and listen to that one as well. Right, Jenny, looking at motivation, if we're looking at the white team, what are your strategies and recommendations that motivating the whole team rather than just the individuals? What can leaders be looking out to do late?

[00:07:15.490] - Jenny Ainsworth
At the end of the day, you are you are leading the team. That doesn't mean to say that you are making every decision and everything for the team. And together you have to come to some conclusions together as a team. And so in terms of motivation, we've got to make the implicit explicit. So by that, I mean we all need to come together and share what's going on inside. What what what helps me be at my best, what drives me crazy, which very often we don't tell anybody.

[00:07:50.110] - Jenny Ainsworth
We just get sort of a little bit irritated, you know, in terms of some of the things, how people might communicate, etc. But we don't tend to actually have a say anything. We just remain irritated. So I think leaders have got to bring everybody together and say we're a team, you know, yes, I lead. We're all part of it together. And what needs to happen for you to feel that you are contributing at your best, you're being hurt or being seen and you're being at your best.

[00:08:19.030] - Jenny Ainsworth
What do you need, what do you absolutely not need? And get people to sort of contribute to that discussion. And there's ways of doing that, which I'll come to. But then it becomes a collective collaborative discussion and collaborative decision, which is, OK, these are the things that we're pulling out which which are going to help all of us be. It's our best for one another.

[00:08:43.390] - Clare Josa
That's fantastic. Jenny, how can we build that discussion? Because I'm really curious.

[00:08:48.520] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yeah, so here's the thing. And very often I think, you know, we need to take some things on board as a leader. And and I've always encouraged leaders to say if there was just one thing that you would like me to either start doing or stop doing or perhaps do a bit more, what would it be? And, you know, the first time I was I was told this when I was a leader, I remember feeling a little bit I don't know what I want to ask them that.

[00:09:17.110] - Jenny Ainsworth
And, you know, and the coach who I was working with said what a really quite innocuous questions, you know? And I said, OK, but what happens if they say, well, you can start looking for another job? That would be really helpful to me on the coach said, I honestly don't think they will. I think they will come up with things that are so innocuous that will never have crossed your radar because they are not important to you.

[00:09:41.890] - Jenny Ainsworth
And so you won't see them. And actually, they were completely right. And it is never failed me since and it's never failed me with with other people. And it will be things like how often we meet, emails, meetings, they'll be really innocuous things. And so that's the first part, because then as a leader, I am asking you. I am listening. And I'm acting and that in and of itself, I have found, has brought me and my teams together because they have a sense of thank you, thank you for actually asking my opinion.

[00:10:16.590] - Jenny Ainsworth
Thank you for honouring it. And it has been really rare and I mean so rare that somebody gives us something that I thought I just cannot fundamentally do that at all. There might be elements, I think I can't do it all, but let's have a talk about it. So if there's anybody cynical listening in. Yes, but what happens if they ask? It's so rare and I haven't seen it. So that's the first part as a leader, which is sort of asking those sorts of things.

[00:10:43.290] - Jenny Ainsworth
However. We've got to think about the people in our team. I'm a really fast thinker, so if somebody says to me, what do you want? You know, one thing that you would love for me to say, I would think, um, you know what? And I would be able to think like that. Somebody who's a bit more of a Reflektor, somebody who needs time to process, will go. And then we sort of we're sitting here thinking that, you know, anybody there and we need to give people their thinking time that they personally need in order to give us the treasure, you know, so sometimes if you are going to be running a meeting like this or or asking your team members to contribute and to say this is what motivates me, this is what irritates me, this is what I'd love to say.

[00:11:35.510] - Jenny Ainsworth
There are some people who if you gave them a heads up a couple of days before, they're not going to look at it until the day because they're the fast thinkers. But the more reflective people, they need to feel that they can contribute to that meeting. So maybe we can give them a couple of days notice to think, reflect and come with their thoughts, then everybody is able to contribute on an equal level at the same time.

[00:12:00.230] - Clare Josa
Absolutely. And also that understanding that you can give me feedback and it's not going to limit your career.

[00:12:05.900] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yes, exactly. That's exactly that. And actually, that's a really valid point because, you know, if we I've often said such a people, if somebody just sort of grabbed you in the corridor, do you remember when people grab you in the corridor in days of yore anyway and said to you, how can I just give you a bit of feedback? You know, what would be your initial response? And most people sort of 90 percent of the time, their initial response is, oh, this is going to be negative.

[00:12:38.390] - Jenny Ainsworth
So even though we talk about feedback and having a feedback culture, it still resonates in that part of the brain of all. What are you going to tell me? So these these are really simple questions that we can ask which encourage people to to give feedback in a positive way, but recognise, as you say, that is going to be used in a positive way rather than use having a petulant response or a pushback or a dismiss. And I think that's really useful as well in terms of building a feedback culture.

[00:13:09.650] - Clare Josa
Absolutely. Absolutely. And realising that feedback is not personal. And what I love about what you were discussing there is it's about it's about actions and behaviours rather than you as a leader. It's not about you as a person.

[00:13:22.400] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yes, exactly.

[00:13:23.840] - Clare Josa
So looking at how to bring all of this together, I know you talk about a team charter for getting buy in and helping to motivate people. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

[00:13:33.450] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yes, I talk a little bit about what are the things that we need to consider in terms of how we're going to operate. We're a group of individuals who are coming together and are contributing at to team level. So let's have a think about things like how often do we want to meet and for how long and why? Why are we meeting? What is the purpose of meeting? And I promise you, if we say to people, why do you have a team meeting, very often they say was to date, and it's to keep people informed of what's going on.

[00:14:08.300] - Jenny Ainsworth
That is not an answer to the question, because to keep people updated, we have Internet sites, we have emails, we have everything going up. So why are you bringing this group of people together on a Tuesday at 10 o'clock? So it's really thinking, why are we doing it? You know what what are the outputs? What are the outcomes that we're trying to get to and then to share things like a little bit about our own preferences, how we prefer to be communicated with.

[00:14:38.030] - Jenny Ainsworth
Some people say, please just pick up the phone. Honestly, I will always, always answer your call. I'd rather do that than have an email. Other people say, I haven't picked up the phone in seven years. Don't call me because I will look at it in absolute abject horror. Who says yes, exactly? But we don't. We tend to communicate in a way that suits us. But if we're trying to get the best out of other people, if I'm aware that Claire is working from home, she has to do the school run.

[00:15:13.340] - Jenny Ainsworth
So actually, there's not a great deal of point in trying to get a response to Claire before nine thirty. And that helps me because I think what time is it? Okay, she's not home yet, so I'll either manage it myself or I'll wait a few minutes. Then we've been honouring and respectful of everybody's communication styles, honouring of peoples working times and when they can be at their best when not. So it's not set in stone a team charter.

[00:15:40.880] - Jenny Ainsworth
But I recommend things like communication meetings and how we going to hold ourselves accountable to this. And everybody hates the word accountable. But it's almost if we're doing this, we're doing it and it's for us and it's to make it successful. So if we notice that things are drifting again, what are we going to do? What's what are going to be the signs? So we keep it fluid and flexible and working for us. And it's. Have so many great results in all the teams that I've worked with and across different businesses, because so often, like I mentioned earlier, the things that we hold inside are very implicit.

[00:16:17.740] - Jenny Ainsworth
We just assume that other people know when we make the implicit explicit. It's so helpful to everybody.

[00:16:24.280] - Clare Josa
Absolutely, because as part of a team, we generally don't go out there with a mission to upset each other. Yes. So if we can understand what people's needs are, then we can accommodate as many of them as we reasonably can. Yeah, and one of the things I'm seeing a lot in organisations at the moment is companies saying, right, everybody's in two days a week in the office, make it work. And one of the things we touched on before we came on air today is the difference between true hybrid working and just flexible working.

[00:16:54.820] - Clare Josa
What are your thoughts on that?

[00:16:56.560] - Jenny Ainsworth
I mean, flexible working for me is much, much more around. You know, I am going to just work from home, but I'm going to do early morning until eight thirty. Then I'm going to take a couple of hours off because that works for me better. I'm going to be dialling in on the evening doing all of that, and I'm going to come into work one day a week. So all of that lovely flexibility is great and hybrid working there are definitely similarities.

[00:17:22.450] - Jenny Ainsworth
But Hybrid working is saying if if if you are at your best and if you contribute and perform at your best, everybody wins, you win, the team wins. Eyewitness leader, our business wins. So what does that look like for you? Does that mean that you are going to be in the office five days a week? You know, what does it look like? And really exploring that in the best possible way. So there are definitely some similarities, but I think we need to be clear about what true hybrid working really means.

[00:17:57.250] - Clare Josa
Absolutely. As you say, you know, if somebody actually finds that they're massively more productive at home, then arbitrarily dragging them into the office just to sit in the office with the same laptop and check the same emails doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. And what you talked about earlier about having that intention behind things like a team meeting, if you're going to ask people to all be in the office on the same day is give them a reason.

[00:18:19.930] - Clare Josa
Yes. And not just presenteeism. Yeah. And something else that's really important to me at the moment is I think a lot of organisations haven't quite sussed that September is still going to be really tricky for people. For example, with school age children, you know, this this diktat, if you're in the office two or three days a week. Well, at the moment, a lot of the old commuter trains are still not running on the timetable, which is really messed up.

[00:18:45.640] - Clare Josa
The commute for people. A lot of schools are still not offering the wraparound care that we used to have, the childminders that we used to rely on. A lot of them have had to quit and go and get other jobs. And also we are still going to be in a position in September where schools will close because people have tested positive for covid and parents then have to be working from home and home schooling again. And I think that a lot of organisations haven't quite sussed that yet.

[00:19:12.190] - Clare Josa
How do you have any advice if somebody is in a leadership role and they're making these decisions about how to make hybrid working, how can we make sure we don't end up with a two tier workforce where, you know, the classic millennials sort of genocide are in the office the whole time, getting the opportunities and the promotions and all the working parents are working at home being completely overlooked.

[00:19:35.290] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yeah, we've got so much to do in that. First of all, you know, Hybrid working is fabulous and people having this great choice, which so, so often they didn't have before. But what we need to to avoid is, as you quite say, a divisive workforce where simply because I'm working from home, I'm not having the watercooler moments of bumping into one another. And, you know, we come together on a meeting and some things mentioned.

[00:20:02.950] - Jenny Ainsworth
And so what's what's this? Oh, yeah. Claire and I were just talking earlier. It's where we sorted it. And all of a sudden there's this tension, you know, so that needs to be absolutely addressed. The other thing that you mentioned there in terms of leaders is we've got hybrid working has got to be hugely flexible and malleable and forgiving, hugely forgiving, because these things could could well happen where, you know, somebody, a parent, a working parent might be back at it back into the office.

[00:20:36.910] - Jenny Ainsworth
And all of the sudden, you know, something's happened, just closes down and they have to be working from home for two weeks. And we don't want eye rolling and all of that sort of stuff from the rest of the team. So I think, first of all, we need to call the elephant out of the room. And as a leader, I'll be saying this could happen for Bill. Both Mary, you know, we hope it doesn't for their sake as much as ours.

[00:20:57.940] - Jenny Ainsworth
And if it does, what we need to do is to look at the best way of helping them manage the situation and indeed helping us manage the situation. So let's think about what? It might look like before it happens, so we can respond rather than frantically react. And I also think that in doing that, a leader is staying strategic and open and thinking about the potential bumps in the road rather than, you know, originally it was 21st of June.

[00:21:26.040] - Jenny Ainsworth
What is it now? 1992, July. Everything's good. We're all good to go because it isn't going to be like that. So let's really have our eyes wide open. Let's really think about what could be a bump in the road. How likely is it to happen and what does that require of all of us to deal with it in the best possible way and have that conversation as a collective rather than a lead to taking that on both themselves and managing it themselves?

[00:21:52.110] - Clare Josa
Absolutely. And one of the things I'm seeing is a stress response from some leaders is that dictating, that imposing and by asking people actually, what could you achieve? Can you actually physically get into the office by nine o'clock anymore? Does that train simply not exist now? And that Breakfast Club doesn't exist for the kids, meaning that's no longer an option for you. Or if you had to do it, it would be a very stressful thing involving breakfast, time, playdates and all that kind of thing, talking to people about what they can and can't achieve rather than assuming if you say X number of days in the office for presenteeism purposes and somehow they will make it work.

[00:22:29.530] - Clare Josa
Because one of the things we've certainly found at home was we had regular discussions, my husband and I. How did we ever make it work with him in London? Full time. Yeah. And we realised that the way we made it work isn't actually an option for us anymore. And certainly him going into the office becomes almost like an expedition. There is so many pieces to put in place. And whilst we can make that work, what organisations will find is that some employees will start to resent how difficult it's become.

[00:23:00.510] - Clare Josa
And if we haven't given them a Y on what we're asking them to do, then they haven't bought into it. They feel it's imposed on them and they're much more likely to then either underperform or start sending out their surveys.

[00:23:13.800] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yes, I do that. I often say resentment is one of the worst emotions because it really is cancerous. It starts to cloud your judgement, your thinking, everything when you are resentful about something or something being pushed onto you with no consultation, etc., we can become incredibly, incredibly resentful and there's not a great deal of need for it if we do it right.

[00:23:40.290] - Clare Josa
Absolutely. And it's really important, I think, for leaders not to be scared of asking opinions and asking people to voice their needs, because then we often have that feeling of, oh my goodness, but then somehow I need to please everybody. Well, actually, we don't. We just need to consider the needs and agree as a team what would be fair and workable.

[00:24:00.180] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yeah. And I've often said to my teams that I want to listen and hear what you're all looking for. We'll have to make a decision to suit the collective, which means that there'll be some things we will will be doing which will suit some of you. And some of the things will do may not suit others. However, I have to make a decision based on everything and at some point put my stake in the ground. And for those of you who are not negatively impacts, but it's not as great as it is for others, I promise you I will work with you directly to look at, OK, how can we make sure that you can maximise this rather than say, well, that's just great, I haven't been considered at all.

[00:24:42.660] - Jenny Ainsworth
So again, it's transparency and saying up front, I'll listen to everybody, I'll take on board everything. But at some point I need to make a decision and I will personally work with anybody for whom that decision doesn't fit as nice as perhaps to the people.

[00:24:59.040] - Clare Josa
And that's a brilliant way of looking at it, Jenny. And it's also I think it's important for us to understand as leaders that getting that information from people is probably not going to happen. And team meeting because people will conform to the group think, you know, it takes an awful lot of courage to take on a virtual meeting to put your hand up and say, actually, I'm the only one in the room that can't do this. Yes. You don't want to create that bad feeling.

[00:25:23.280] - Clare Josa
So it's our job as leaders to make sure that we've connected with what people really need rather than with what they kind of compromised on, because otherwise that resentment will still be there, even though we've tried to elicit that opinion.

[00:25:35.280] - Jenny Ainsworth
Yes, exactly. That's exactly that.

[00:25:37.380] - Clare Josa
OK, so to wrap up, Jenny, because this has just been amazing and I'm aware we're getting close to that half hour point line here. I know that you have a three word strategy that is vital for leaders in Hybrid working and leadership generally. What are those three words and why are they so important?

[00:25:57.480] - Jenny Ainsworth
We often say, you know, the little three words, I love you. I have three different ones. I'm not suggesting as leaders we go round as a fan of the football team members. What I am suggesting. Is these three words think, feel and do are so critical to having your leadership armoury, and we should consider this every time we send an email, every time we have a meeting at a team meeting. And it is as a result of me doing this and holding this meeting, what do I want my people to think?

[00:26:28.140] - Jenny Ainsworth
What do I want them to feel and what do I want them to do? And I don't think that we consider those enough. As I mentioned earlier, we always have the team meeting at 10 o'clock on the Tuesday. Everybody gives a bit of an update. Then I share, you know, some things for the week and it's all great. But if I really thought about it, we're all fatigued in terms of meetings. I want my meeting to be the best of the week, so I want them to think it is a really good use of their time.

[00:26:57.300] - Jenny Ainsworth
I want them to feel that they are able to contribute at a high level. I want them to feel heard seeing all of those things. And what do I want them to do? I want them to go off feeling inspired and able to do their job better than they could do an hour ago. How is the current meeting format serving that? And very often it doesn't. So again, we need to come back and think, OK, what needs to change?

[00:27:23.130] - Jenny Ainsworth
What needs to be different in order for my people to think, feel and do what they need to think, feel and do to be at their best. And those three three things, I promise you, if you apply them to so many different aspects of your work, life will make a fundamental difference to motivation, performance and productivity.

[00:27:43.680] - Clare Josa
I absolutely love this. The concept of what do I need, what do I need to create to allow my meeting to be the highlight of the week? I'm it's not something I'm guessing most of what they considered is kind of like 30 meetings awake. Yeah. Why not? Going back to Disney, you don't have to be Tyga. Yeah, it's what do I need them to think, to feel to do for this to have been the highlight of their week.

[00:28:09.810] - Clare Josa
Because if they look forward to that meeting, they're going to bring a very different version of themselves. Yes. Exactly. Absolutely. So, Jenny, just before we wrap up, tell people how they can get in touch with you on how you can help them, what sort of resources you've got for them.

[00:28:28.110] - Clare Josa
I have got and I put a link into the into the charts and Claire can share that as well. I've got three things. First of all, I have a an old called Fire Up Your Life. And it's got it's an audio download and it's also got the transcript because some people prefer to read rather than listen. And it's just a 30 minute pep talk, punchy pep talk, just to get you thinking about how do I think how do I approach life?

[00:28:54.420] - Jenny Ainsworth
Is it serving meaning the best way? Could it be different? And I've got a Gen's Gems newsletter, which again, is just a punchy newsletter that comes out just to give me some thinking, some different perspectives to help you in your life work. And this also liberated, which is a 45 minute audio and personal guidebook, which is specifically for women to help them sort of shake off the shackles of playing small or serving everybody else before themselves.

[00:29:22.770] - Clare Josa
I absolutely love these Jenny Ainsworth for those of you on the replay, you can find those at Jenny Ainsworth dot com forward slash free hyphen resources and also go find Jenny on LinkedIn, track her down, connect, let her know what your actions are going to be as a result of listening to or watching this session. And Jenny, to wrap up, firstly, an enormous thank you to you for giving your time, sharing your wisdom. I've been in this field for years and I'm still sitting there wanting to scribble notes.

[00:29:50.280] - Clare Josa
This has been such a useful session. If you could share one more thing with people who are managing teams or working with co-workers who want to help them feel motivated without turning into taker, what is the one last piece of advice you'd like to share today?

[00:30:06.870] - Jenny Ainsworth
Dialogue. Keep talking. Keep asking. Keep listening. What is right for one person in your team is not right for somebody else. We're not expecting you as leaders to bend and shape and be different for everybody. But if you can think of yourself as on a dial, what do you need to dial for person A? What do you need to dial down the person? B, you're still being yourself, but you're you're just making those slight reductions which enabled the other people to to to respond in the best possible way to you and to be the best that they can be.

[00:30:39.600] - Jenny Ainsworth
So just keep talking. Just keep listening. Keep acting.

[00:30:43.860] - Clare Josa
That's absolutely fantastic. Jenny, thank you so much. Everyone go find her at Jenny Ainsworth dot com or over on lengthen. This has been a truly inspirational episode.